Bloggerhythms' Exclusive Interview With Philadelphia's "Harvey In The Morning" and Double Dare's "Harvey The Announcer" - Part 1

John "Harvey in the Morning"

Unusually, the article posted here today is the first of two with a specific audience in mind. They're aimed at fans of John "Harvey in the Morning," a very popular Philadelphia disc jockey who had successful morning drive radio shows on two different FM stations during the 70s, 80s and 90s. Younger people may also be interested in reading about the man who later became "Harvey the Announcer" on Nickelodeon's Double Dare.

Harvey agreed to participate in an email question and answer session with Bloggerhythms, but before he responded to my inquiries the former star and current entrepreneur told me that his answers would be on the verbose side. He easily kept that promise by sending me an eleven page Microsoft Word document that offered so much detail that I knew the interview had to be good. This post is very long, but if you were a Harvey fan - or are interested in the business side of the TV and radio industries - you may find that this first installment is worth reading. He even offers unique perspectives on the success of John DeBella and Howard Stern. He was very open and isn't afraid to get personal and political.

While it's obvious that the highly regarded radio luminary enjoyed answering my questions it still took up a LOT of his time to respond - so, Harvey, if you're reading this - I thank you profusely for your effort. Part 2 will be published in a few days.

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CR:  You are the only DJ in Philadelphia to ever reach #1 in the ratings on two different radio stations. Is that something you're still proud of? It's quite a feat.

Harvey:  Well, I don’t know about number 1 at both stations "overall adults 12 plus" (as they used to describe the ratings…I have no idea how they split them up these days) but yes, my show did get to number 1 with the target audience both at WIOQ and then for a time at WMGK. Both times there’s really only one place to go when you’re at the top and it was so exciting when it happened for the first time at IOQ, but then the inevitable fall from that spot that happens for any number of reasons. In the "overall adults 12 plus ratings" MGK was positioned very well - always in the top 10 stations and often around 4th to 7th overall. I used to jokingly say at MGK “I clawed my way to the middle and I’m staying there!” After the experience of being number 1 at IOQ and then experiencing what happens when that goes away, I no longer had any desire to succeed at that level ever again. Unlike a Howard Stern type of extreme product (he would have been #1 in the morning if the rest of the day was the farm report) I told the general manager at MGK when I went there "if the station is healthy I will deliver you a morning show that does a little better than the rest of the station giving you a strong start to the day. If the station goes in the tank, sorry, but I’m going down with it. I’m just not that spectacular of a talent.” He agreed that was exactly what they wanted and we started what would turn into a successful 7 year run. The final and 8th year at MGK was the most humiliating experience of my working life in radio. They took control of the show away from me…basically cancelled Harvey In The Morning and changed the format to 70’s and I was allowed to talk for only 7 or 8 minutes an hour. I used to talk 40 to 45 minutes of every hour. In hindsight I should have walked away when they cancelled my show and not done the 70’s format because I knew it was doomed to fail, but I was a week away from signing the mortgage to build my dream house and I knew I couldn’t get the loan unemployed so I took the less courageous path and did it for the money…ALWAYS a terrible choice!

It’s very hard to maintain a show for 19 years as I did, and it’s hard to keep yourself excited and motivated every day for that long, and there were definitely times when I felt unchallenged and had gotten to some sort of skill level or facility at doing this morning show thing. But you need some sort of artistic tension where there’s a chance you might fail. That is why I have always tried to find a way to challenge myself…to make me scared again by tackling something new. It’s the reason why during the course of the morning radio shows that I started hosting large concerts at the Spectrum and Tower Theatre and why I started doing small clubs and comedy clubs hosting shows where I could try my hand at doing stand up material, but before you admire that endeavor too much, it was totally the chicken shit way to do stand up. I would write some material, almost always on the way to the show, and try it out. Much of the time it worked pretty well but if I got in trouble and started to bomb, I had the parachute of just bringing on the next comedian to suffer through the bad mood I’d just put the audience in! (I’ll bet they loved me!) But I will say of all the performance experiences I’ve had, and that’s most of them, stand up was absolutely THE most terrifying and THE most exciting and gratifying when it worked. When you get a big laugh from a crowd with something you wrote, there is nothing like that in the world…it is absolutely the most powerful drug in the performance pharmacy! 

But, back to the challenges of hosting live shows, then wanting to add television to my performance experiences. Watching how radio guys on television almost always looked like radio guys! Their bodies flailing around, flapping their arms, their mouths moving in unnatural ways, staring blankly like they were in a coma…all of that I surmised was what came of listening ONLY to the sound of your own voice way too loud for too many years. You tune out all the other senses and the body rebels and starts moving all kinds of ways that don’t remotely resemble human behavior. So, with that end goal of doing television in mind, I started studying acting at Hedgerow Theatre. It was near where I lived, my first wife was an actor who had studied and acted there so it seemed like a logical place to start. What I didn’t expect was that I would absolutely fall in love with acting.  Without a doubt, acting in a play in live theatre is my absolute favorite performance experience by a factor of 10 or 20 times the 2nd runner up. And, I do think it helped me to be aware of my body and made me a better performer on television once I finally did get my first TV gig on Evening Magazine writing and performing a once a week humor column - like what Andy Rooney did on 60 Minutes for so long. That first TV gig ran from 1981 to 1985, when I walked away because I couldn’t think of one funny new thing to write about! But, sitting on my mantle very proudly in my home studio is the Regional Emmy Award I received in 1985 for outstanding writing. One of my treasured achievements, in that I admire writers so much.
My very first live performance experience that set me on the path of being a performer for 30 years was as a guitar player in a rock band in 8th grade. Being a geeky, non-sports, not especially cool kid, that first time while playing in a band and seeing an audience turn and pay attention to you…and the notoriety that came from being in the best known band in high school…well, that discovery would stay with me the rest of my life. That was some addictive power you got there…doing something that made people pay attention to you…couldn’t let that go! For years and years I thought that was my dream…to be a rock star and be on tour, and although I’ve had some really fun experiences playing guitar and singing in a band the best experiences in music don’t come close to being in a mediocre play. And if it’s a good play with good actors…OMG! 
So about every 6 or 7 years I would notice a little boredom start to creep in and I would try to find something to keep me excited artistically, figuring that since the show was really only a projection of me - simply a slightly exaggerated version of who I actually was as a person - that if I were happier and more challenged then the radio show would automatically be more interesting and better which is why, the 2 times I got fired from my radio show were so devastating to me personally. People say things like “its only business” and “don’t take it personally,” but that’s just not possible or reasonable.  When they call you in to the general manager’s office and he tells you in essence, “You know that thing you do every morning that is basically an exact replica of who you are at the deepest core of your personhood and all that you value in the world… you know that thing?….well, we hate that thing and it has no value to us anymore and we’re throwing that thing away and never want to see it or hear it again.  Have a nice day!” Yeah….I’m supposed to not take that personally??
(and I thought this one would be one of the short answers!)

CR:  Why did you quit the radio business for good after being dismissed at WMGK? Do you miss it at all? Have you ever considered returning to broadcasting, even on a part time basis?

Harvey:  I didn’t quit the radio business so much as it quit me. After I got fired at WMGK I was in the midst of building my dream house which was a 4 year project restoring a 200 year old stone farmhouse that burned in 1988 and sat abandoned for 5 years. So, after getting fired at MGK I took almost a year away from the business and finished the house myself, doing all kinds of finish carpentry and other tasks that I had not done before. (Turned out to be a good setup for hosting Gimme Shelter, a home improvement show for Discovery for 2 seasons and also for starting my own handyman/contracting business).

When I went looking for radio work after the house was done, I was as cold as a person can get. No one was interested. I started in Philadelphia, of course thinking that since I had spent over 20 years here that it would be possible to land another show. Then I widened my search across the U.S. and never got any serious interest. I’m not sure if it was because I was last year’s flavor - an affable, generally nice guy, everyman kind of personality - and shock jocks, morning zoos and Howard Stern now ruled, or what. It doesn’t really matter because ultimately losing my show turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me…but it would be only after the worst 5 years of my life from 1995 to 2000. My first marriage was over, my career had vaporized, I was in debt for the first time in my life to pay for the house that I ended up walking away from in the divorce (again…shockingly easy to do…we always hear “it’s only money” and most people don’t really mean it…money’s not unimportant, obviously, but at that point starting over and getting to happiness almost instantly upon walking away from the marriage which had not been functional or working for many years made the financial hardship a WHOLE lot easier to navigate). And it turns out that I needed that kind of desperate, existential crisis to finally finish up the personal growth and hard therapy work that I’d been engaged in since my mid-20’s. So, suffice it to say, that as painful as that time was, I wouldn’t trade it for anything in this world and, moreover, I wouldn’t change a thing in my life. Lucky is the man who can get to 71 and has no regrets. I’ve made a million mistakes, and I’ve screwed up constantly and hurt people, etc. but I wouldn’t take any of that away because without it I wouldn’t have gotten to where I am currently. So there’s your dose of philosophy for today!  

I do not miss radio even for one second. I look back fondly on the enjoyment of doing it. I look back proudly on the 2 shows that I created from scratch, each one coming from me and not copied from other radio markets or radio consultants. Make no mistake, I’ve stolen a huge amount from everyone who came before, specifically David Letterman and Johnny Carson. Almost everything starts with those two figures for me and then you throw in Steve Allen, Ernie Kovacs, every game show host I watched as a kid and every stand up comic of the era (even the disgraced ones like Woody Allen and Bill Cosby, unfortunately). But, rather than steal outright - just blatantly copying somebody else’s ideas - what I tried to do was take what someone did before me, modify it, somehow make it my own, and put something of my point of view into it. The hope was that, although derivative of the earlier work, it was now somewhat different that the original purloined item. That’s what every good artist has done for millennia and I have no problem admitting that. But, you’ve got to put your own stamp on it.  Otherwise you’re just turning in somebody else’s term paper and shame on you! Now…the bitter part…I’m speaking of the Morning Zoo which cleaned my clock, destroyed my ratings and beat me to a pulp in the morning show ratings wars…they won definitively and were able to continue that dominance for almost 5 years, which is a huge accomplishment…right up to when Howard Stern did to DeBella the exact thing that DeBella had done to me. But my problem with losing in that way was that every single thing on the Morning Zoo was taken from some other radio station in some other city. It didn’t feel like a clean victory… a fair loss to a better opponent. The Louie Louie Parade, Gonzo Thursday, Hawaiian Shirt Friday…whatever…you name the feature,  nothing on that show was created by its host and I find that disgraceful.
Although I take giant issue with what Howard Stern did with his talent and the toxic destructive forces he unleashed in our culture, and in my humble opinion, you can draw a straight line from Howard Stern to the Trump presidency. The assault on the Capitol and a complete lack of civility in our culture, especially our political culture…all of that was supercharged by the vibe that Stern put into the air that it was okay to treat people badly and further victimize them to gain your ends. Having said that, Howard Stern is an immense, creative and original talent bordering on genius. The sad part for me is that he was always good enough to have succeeded without giving in to his insecurity and OCD fears.  However, because of those mental health issues and the fact that he hadn’t done the work to address and heal those issues when he was younger, he chose another path. He chose to do awful, shocking, mean spirited and victimizing things to find his entertainment and humor for his show. In my world, that’s a bright red line that I tried very hard to never cross. I failed a bunch of times but did my best to make it right if I could, and not give in to fear of failure or insecurity that might cause me to get a laugh at some vulnerable person’s expense. Politicians, public figures (often but not always)….they're in a different category and I believe they are fair targets, especially when they display a stunning hypocrisy…then all bets are off and I would take them on in whatever way is most entertaining and also make a point for the “good guys” and integrity at the same time. Again, with some sort of goal in mind of what you want to put out into the world. If I had to sum up my single motivating target and what I wanted the show to represent, it would be…integrity. But, I’ve never resented Howard’s success…he truly is an original talent.  
So, no I don’t miss it.  I’ve had the chance to be “on the radio” a few times in the past 25 plus years, but never hosting, only as a guest, and in those few moments, it is clear to me just how well suited I was for that occupation.  It's just is so easy for me to talk on the radio. I’m good at it, it feels effortless and I find ways to tie elements all around me together and knit them into some sort of entertaining narrative…after all those years it’s just something that never really goes away. But the ease and enjoyment in that “talking on the radio” thing doesn’t make me ever want to go back and do it again.  I’m not sure what I did then would even work now for a morning radio show, although I think as a podcast it certainly could.
I had a test 5 or 10 years ago when someone offered me a chance to do absolutely anything I wanted on an internet radio show. I could make it whatever I wanted and there were a few Philadelphia radio folks who were already working on that internet channel. But, after thinking about it, I passed on the offer, and it was an easy decision. Without trying to come off like some kind of smacked ass or arrogant prick I told the guy, "Look, I GET why person A or person B wants to do this, because they’ve always been told what to do and say and never got a chance to create their own thing in their time working in radio. So, I totally get why they would jump at the chance. I’m so lucky in that I got to do that TWICE in my career, and every moment of those 2 shows was me….just me.  There’s nothing on my bucket list that I still have left to do.  Not a single thing on the bucket list…and how lucky is THAT GUY?
I did have a couple offers to do part time but it was only within the last 10 years and I thought, once again, why would I do that? Go back to read cards with witty sayings that some lame consultant from Cleveland wrote just for the thrill of being able to say “I work on the radio” rather than, “I’m a handyman” at parties?  Nope….not gonna do it….wouldn’t be prudent.
CR:  What is the proudest moment of your radio and/or TV careers?
Harvey:  That’s a good question. One has occurred quite recently as I discovered that there are about 250 or 300 episodes of Double Dare up on Paramount Plus. The fact that something that I was a part of is considered important enough that it’s on a streaming service in 2022… something that I shot in 1987 I can stream anytime on my Apple TV box and watch it today? OMG, that is the coolest thing ever.  In general, being on Double Dare is a source of great pleasure and pride that I was part of something that became part of pop culture for kids and parents of a certain age. SNL did a parody of Marc Summers and slime just last weekend, and on a Young Sheldon episode this season Sheldon was clicking thru the channels and one of the shows he rejected watching was Double Dare….Young Sheldon being set in late 80’s, I’m guessing.  And a Nickelodeon animated series called Sanjay and Craig did a Double Dare themed episode and Marc and I voiced our characters and I got to see myself animated!  So, even this many years later it is still hanging around the zeitgeist. And while we were still on the air, Double Dare was parodied in Mad Magazine. The Mad artist drew my caricature as this scowling, ill tempered guy named Hardly, the sidekick to Muck Slummers…I mean, does it get any better than being parodied in Mad Magazine?  So, I’m very proud of that TV work. I’m very proud overall of the radio show I created and the vibe it had and the way I treated people during its run. I wanted to be funny…I wanted to surprise…I wanted to even shock people every once in a while and do the unexpected, but, again, I was always trying to stay on this side of the aforementioned bright red line. So, I’m very very proud of what I created and that even now, after being OFF THE AIR for more years than I was ON THE AIR, people still occasionally mention it and even once in a while ask me to do an interview!  It’s nice to feel I have a legacy, which is also why I would never go back into a regular radio venue again. All I could accomplish would be to screw up the legacy and that would be dumb.
TO BE CONTINUED.....PART 2 BEGINS HERE.